Comments on: Should Yaoi Creators Fight Sexism? http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/ For all your Yaoi emergencies... Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:14:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: silkeyes http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-198 silkeyes Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:41:58 +0000 http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-198 when it comes to gay ,people tend to show their disgust openly but they don't tend to empathize with them, because people they never pose the question to themselves "what if i was gay ?" .they bring critics but they are incapable to put themselves in the shoes of this kind of person .It's true when psychologists say : "it's not a problem with them ,it's with us "This quote if i can name it this way it's true because they are not abnormal we consider them to be this way plus of that not many gay show themselves in public because they already think about of what others will think if they see them .Being gay is not something you decide to be it's something you are born with it's not something you can control and it's not their fault that they are born like this is our fault for looking down on them because they are not "like the rest of us ".They aare as normal as we ,are simple people with likes and dislikes but because of our mentality we are not ready to consider them being as normal as we are .So in the end it's the society who decides once again for you .....and the others who point with the finger without thinking that someday their children might be gay and then what will they do ??? chase them or accept them for who they are ...i guess we'll never learn until we experience it ourselves ....<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('198','silkeyes'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('198','silkeyes','when it comes to gay ,people tend to show their disgust openly but they don\'t tend to empathize with them, because people they never pose the question to themselves \"what if i was gay ?\" .they bring critics but they are incapable to put themselves in the shoes of this kind of person .It\'s true when psychologists say : \"it\'s not a problem with them ,it\'s with us \"This quote if i can name it this way it\'s true because they are not abnormal we consider them to be this way plus of that not many gay show themselves in public because they already think about of what others will think if they see them .Being gay is not something you decide to be it\'s something you are born with it\'s not something you can control and it\'s not their fault that they are born like this is our fault for looking down on them because they are not \"like the rest of us \".They aare as normal as we ,are simple people with likes and dislikes but because of our mentality we are not ready to consider them being as normal as we are .So in the end it\'s the society who decides once again for you .....and the others who point with the finger without thinking that someday their children might be gay and then what will they do ??? chase them or accept them for who they are ...i guess we\'ll never learn until we experience it ourselves ....'); return false;">Quote</a></div> when it comes to gay ,people tend to show their disgust openly but they don’t tend to empathize with them, because people they never pose the question to themselves “what if i was gay ?” .they bring critics but they are incapable to put themselves in the shoes of this kind of person .It’s true when psychologists say : “it’s not a problem with them ,it’s with us “This quote if i can name it this way it’s true because they are not abnormal we consider them to be this way plus of that not many gay show themselves in public because they already think about of what others will think if they see them .Being gay is not something you decide to be it’s something you are born with it’s not something you can control and it’s not their fault that they are born like this is our fault for looking down on them because they are not “like the rest of us “.They aare as normal as we ,are simple people with likes and dislikes but because of our mentality we are not ready to consider them being as normal as we are .So in the end it’s the society who decides once again for you …..and the others who point with the finger without thinking that someday their children might be gay and then what will they do ??? chase them or accept them for who they are …i guess we’ll never learn until we experience it ourselves ….
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]]> By: Alex Woolfson http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-157 Alex Woolfson Thu, 02 Aug 2007 03:26:32 +0000 http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-157 Shinkaishi - Thank you for writing. You make some good points and I agree that bigoted prejudice and discrimination against anyone -- regardless of their race, sexuality, gender identity, etc. -- is the ultimate enemy we must fight. And in an ideal world, the only distinctions we would make would be based solely on the content of a person's character, not on irrelevant physical/ethnic traits. That said, it is my belief that we live in a world where those who are minorities or those who wish to end prejudice and hate-based crime don't have the luxury to ignore those distinctions. Yes, men experience violence here in the United States and it wouldn't surprise me to find out that, based purely on numbers, more men are killed by other men than are women by other men. Yet studies show that when women are the targets of male violence they are shot, stabbed, beaten many more times than men who are similar targets. It seems that while men are stabbed just enough times to kill them, women receive multiple wounds far above and beyond the number required. This finding is apparently consistent. And there is one other group that receives the same treatment -- homosexual men. As a young gay man I was very influenced by a talk given by Suzanne Pharr (whose book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Homophobia-Weapon-Afterword-Annotated-Bibliography/dp/1890759015/ref=sr_1_1/002-4488868-3046451?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186024672&sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Homophobia: Weapon of Sexism</a> cites the study I just mentioned). Based on her talk and other experiences I have had, I've come to believe that there is a strong connection between sexism and hatred towards gays and lesbians. So, yes, as a human being, it is my wish and responsibility to end hatred towards all beings. But as a gay man, I feel a special calling to fight sexism in particular. And it's a strong motivator for me. But I think the point is well made that I have as much a responsibility towards my portrayal of men as I do towards my portrayal of women. And I will absolutely keep that in mind as I create my own body of work. Thank you again for your thoughts. :-)<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('157','Alex Woolfson'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('157','Alex Woolfson','Shinkaishi - \r\n\r\nThank you for writing. You make some good points and I agree that bigoted prejudice and discrimination against anyone -- regardless of their race, sexuality, gender identity, etc. -- is the ultimate enemy we must fight. And in an ideal world, the only distinctions we would make would be based solely on the content of a person\'s character, not on irrelevant physical\/ethnic traits.\r\n\r\nThat said, it is my belief that we live in a world where those who are minorities or those who wish to end prejudice and hate-based crime don\'t have the luxury to ignore those distinctions. Yes, men experience violence here in the United States and it wouldn\'t surprise me to find out that, based purely on numbers, more men are killed by other men than are women by other men. Yet studies show that when women are the targets of male violence they are shot, stabbed, beaten many more times than men who are similar targets. It seems that while men are stabbed just enough times to kill them, women receive multiple wounds far above and beyond the number required. This finding is apparently consistent. And there is one other group that receives the same treatment -- homosexual men.\r\n\r\nAs a young gay man I was very influenced by a talk given by Suzanne Pharr (whose book <a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Homophobia-Weapon-Afterword-Annotated-Bibliography\/dp\/1890759015\/ref=sr_1_1\/002-4488868-3046451?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186024672&sr=8-1\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel=\"nofollow\">Homophobia: Weapon of Sexism<\/a> cites the study I just mentioned). Based on her talk and other experiences I have had, I\'ve come to believe that there is a strong connection between sexism and hatred towards gays and lesbians. So, yes, as a human being, it is my wish and responsibility to end hatred towards all beings. But as a gay man, I feel a special calling to fight sexism in particular. And it\'s a strong motivator for me.\r\n\r\nBut I think the point is well made that I have as much a responsibility towards my portrayal of men as I do towards my portrayal of women. And I will absolutely keep that in mind as I create my own body of work.\r\n\r\nThank you again for your thoughts. :-)'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Shinkaishi -

Thank you for writing. You make some good points and I agree that bigoted prejudice and discrimination against anyone — regardless of their race, sexuality, gender identity, etc. — is the ultimate enemy we must fight. And in an ideal world, the only distinctions we would make would be based solely on the content of a person’s character, not on irrelevant physical/ethnic traits.

That said, it is my belief that we live in a world where those who are minorities or those who wish to end prejudice and hate-based crime don’t have the luxury to ignore those distinctions. Yes, men experience violence here in the United States and it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that, based purely on numbers, more men are killed by other men than are women by other men. Yet studies show that when women are the targets of male violence they are shot, stabbed, beaten many more times than men who are similar targets. It seems that while men are stabbed just enough times to kill them, women receive multiple wounds far above and beyond the number required. This finding is apparently consistent. And there is one other group that receives the same treatment — homosexual men.

As a young gay man I was very influenced by a talk given by Suzanne Pharr (whose book Homophobia: Weapon of Sexism cites the study I just mentioned). Based on her talk and other experiences I have had, I’ve come to believe that there is a strong connection between sexism and hatred towards gays and lesbians. So, yes, as a human being, it is my wish and responsibility to end hatred towards all beings. But as a gay man, I feel a special calling to fight sexism in particular. And it’s a strong motivator for me.

But I think the point is well made that I have as much a responsibility towards my portrayal of men as I do towards my portrayal of women. And I will absolutely keep that in mind as I create my own body of work.

Thank you again for your thoughts. :-)

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]]> By: Shinkaishi http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-156 Shinkaishi Wed, 01 Aug 2007 22:57:17 +0000 http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-156 Hmh, I definitely have to agree with you that as an author, an artist, or any person with a certain public influence, as small as it may be, you should feel a certain responsibility about how you with your work can manipulate others, however, in one of your central points, I think I cannot. First, I should perhaps state that I have been reading your website for a while and given the fact that there are not so many, or at least, not so many visible male yaoi creators and also given the fact that I am a homosexual male as well, I found it quite interesting. However, I should note that I have not and will never be a feminist. You say that "violence and hatred towards women is one of the biggest challenges of our day", but I do think that is wrong. The challenge, perhaps even really the most important one in all human history, is the violence and hatred among humans, towards humans committed by humans... The violence and hatred of a majority towards aminority, of the minority towards the oppressing majority, in families, among nations, religions, any groups you might think of. Why always narrowing things down to one group and then overlooking the other? After all, according to a study in Germany for example, the vast majority of all violent crimes, of all violent acts, is committed by men towards men, and at least as far as I know, this is little different for example in the United States . So, why does it seem to shock people so much more, when a woman is the victim of violence, of hatred? You say that you cannot know how it is to be a woman and I think no man can really and truly say he does, but neither can any woman say in all honesty how it is to be a man, nor can anyone ever truly say, how it is to be any person besides himself... Social conventions have bound women to "home and hearth" and man to work and the responsibility for the existence of an entire family, racism has struck the ones with discrimination and the others with fear and blindness, homophobia has not only harmed those it is directed at but also denied heterosexual (men) normal intimacy, tolerance or simply closeness at the base of an ever present suspicion... But lastly, emancipation movements are primary of course intent to pursue the interests of whom they represent. I think though that it is often not enough. People should not be labelled as blacks with all the stereotypes bound to that image, but as what they are, simply humans with a dark skin, when two boys/ men hug they should not have two worry about "being gay" and lastly the sex of a person should only matter in topics related to the act of sex itself (I recall a character in an Agatha Christie- story making a statement of that nature, and that is more than half a century in the past...). There have been so many "new discoveries" over the time which made the very fundament of so many of our gender stereotypes and clichés crumble, about violence, about genes, about abilities, about love... Why therefore still tread men and women so differently? Shouldn't you just worry, whether or not you represent Humans fairly? Abigail wrote that she did not even notice it (I should note though perhaps, that I have unfortunately not read your story... *blush*) as "violence against a woman", and I do think that this is what it should be, because it does mean that the characters aren't men or women but humans, who can be villains, heroes, weak, strong, brave, cowardly, loving, cold... "Not every black person is a shining role model for their community. Not every bigot hates their kids and kicks their dog", that you wrote yourself, and thus, not every woman has to be good, or strong and smart. You should worry about your portrayal of female characters, I would say, if every one you write about is a manipulative, sadistic devil, etc., or perhaps rather, if you discover, that female characters not only in your stories, but also everywhere else are portrayed that way. Because, if you do, if you worry more about your female characters and their correct portrayal than about the male character's, you ultimately only do contribute to the inequality in another way. Chauvinism has always two sides, and it is both of them which are hurt by it, just in polar opposite ways.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('156','Shinkaishi'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('156','Shinkaishi','Hmh, I definitely have to agree with you that as an author, an artist, or any person with a certain public influence, as small as it may be, you should feel a certain responsibility about how you with your work can manipulate others, however, in one of your central points, I think I cannot.\nFirst, I should perhaps state that I have been reading your website for a while and given the fact that there are not so many, or at least, not so many visible male yaoi creators and also given the fact that I am a homosexual male as well, I found it quite interesting.\nHowever, I should note that I have not and will never be a feminist. \nYou say that \"violence and hatred towards women is one of the biggest challenges of our day\", but I do think that is wrong. The challenge, perhaps even really the most important one in all human history, is the violence and hatred among humans, towards humans committed by humans...\nThe violence and hatred of a majority towards aminority, of the minority towards the oppressing majority, in families, among nations, religions, any groups you might think of.\nWhy always narrowing things down to one group and then overlooking the other? After all, according to a study in Germany for example, the vast majority of all violent crimes, of all violent acts, is committed by men towards men, and at least as far as I know, this is little different for example in the United States .\nSo, why does it seem to shock people so much more, when a woman is the victim of violence, of hatred? \nYou say that you cannot know how it is to be a woman and I think no man can really and truly say he does, but neither can any woman say in all honesty how it is to be a man, nor can anyone ever truly say, how it is to be any person besides himself...\nSocial conventions have bound women to \"home and hearth\" and man to work and the responsibility for the existence of an entire family, racism has struck the ones with discrimination and the others with fear and blindness, homophobia has not only harmed those it is directed at but also denied heterosexual (men) normal intimacy, tolerance or simply closeness at the base of an ever present suspicion...\nBut lastly, emancipation movements are primary of course intent to pursue the interests of whom they represent. I think though that it is often not enough. People should not be labelled as blacks with all the stereotypes bound to that image, but as what they are, simply humans with a dark skin, when two boys\/ men hug they should not have two worry about \"being gay\" and lastly the sex of a person should only matter in topics related to the act of sex itself (I recall a character in an Agatha Christie- story making a statement of that nature, and that is more than half a century in the past...).\nThere have been so many \"new discoveries\" over the time which made the very fundament of so many of our gender stereotypes and clichés crumble, about violence, about genes, about abilities, about love...\nWhy therefore still tread men and women so differently? Shouldn\'t you just worry, whether or not you represent Humans fairly?\nAbigail wrote that she did not even notice it (I should note though perhaps, that I have unfortunately not read your story... *blush*) as \"violence against a woman\", and I do think that this is what it should be, because it does mean that the characters aren\'t men or women but humans, who can be villains, heroes, weak, strong, brave, cowardly, loving, cold...\n\"Not every black person is a shining role model for their community. Not every bigot hates their kids and kicks their dog\", that you wrote yourself, and thus, not every woman has to be good, or strong and smart. You should worry about your portrayal of female characters, I would say, if every one you write about is a manipulative, sadistic devil, etc., or perhaps rather, if you discover, that female characters not only in your stories, but also everywhere else are portrayed that way. Because, if you do, if you worry more about your female characters and their correct portrayal than about the male character\'s, you ultimately only do contribute to the inequality in another way.\nChauvinism has always two sides, and it is both of them which are hurt by it, just in polar opposite ways.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Hmh, I definitely have to agree with you that as an author, an artist, or any person with a certain public influence, as small as it may be, you should feel a certain responsibility about how you with your work can manipulate others, however, in one of your central points, I think I cannot.
First, I should perhaps state that I have been reading your website for a while and given the fact that there are not so many, or at least, not so many visible male yaoi creators and also given the fact that I am a homosexual male as well, I found it quite interesting.
However, I should note that I have not and will never be a feminist.
You say that “violence and hatred towards women is one of the biggest challenges of our day”, but I do think that is wrong. The challenge, perhaps even really the most important one in all human history, is the violence and hatred among humans, towards humans committed by humans…
The violence and hatred of a majority towards aminority, of the minority towards the oppressing majority, in families, among nations, religions, any groups you might think of.
Why always narrowing things down to one group and then overlooking the other? After all, according to a study in Germany for example, the vast majority of all violent crimes, of all violent acts, is committed by men towards men, and at least as far as I know, this is little different for example in the United States .
So, why does it seem to shock people so much more, when a woman is the victim of violence, of hatred?
You say that you cannot know how it is to be a woman and I think no man can really and truly say he does, but neither can any woman say in all honesty how it is to be a man, nor can anyone ever truly say, how it is to be any person besides himself…
Social conventions have bound women to “home and hearth” and man to work and the responsibility for the existence of an entire family, racism has struck the ones with discrimination and the others with fear and blindness, homophobia has not only harmed those it is directed at but also denied heterosexual (men) normal intimacy, tolerance or simply closeness at the base of an ever present suspicion…
But lastly, emancipation movements are primary of course intent to pursue the interests of whom they represent. I think though that it is often not enough. People should not be labelled as blacks with all the stereotypes bound to that image, but as what they are, simply humans with a dark skin, when two boys/ men hug they should not have two worry about “being gay” and lastly the sex of a person should only matter in topics related to the act of sex itself (I recall a character in an Agatha Christie- story making a statement of that nature, and that is more than half a century in the past…).
There have been so many “new discoveries” over the time which made the very fundament of so many of our gender stereotypes and clichés crumble, about violence, about genes, about abilities, about love…
Why therefore still tread men and women so differently? Shouldn’t you just worry, whether or not you represent Humans fairly?
Abigail wrote that she did not even notice it (I should note though perhaps, that I have unfortunately not read your story… *blush*) as “violence against a woman”, and I do think that this is what it should be, because it does mean that the characters aren’t men or women but humans, who can be villains, heroes, weak, strong, brave, cowardly, loving, cold…
“Not every black person is a shining role model for their community. Not every bigot hates their kids and kicks their dog”, that you wrote yourself, and thus, not every woman has to be good, or strong and smart. You should worry about your portrayal of female characters, I would say, if every one you write about is a manipulative, sadistic devil, etc., or perhaps rather, if you discover, that female characters not only in your stories, but also everywhere else are portrayed that way. Because, if you do, if you worry more about your female characters and their correct portrayal than about the male character’s, you ultimately only do contribute to the inequality in another way.
Chauvinism has always two sides, and it is both of them which are hurt by it, just in polar opposite ways.
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]]> By: Alex Woolfson http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-153 Alex Woolfson Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:45:20 +0000 http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-153 Winona, You make a very good point. While I'm not willing to let myself off the hook for being responsible for the portrayal of my female characters, I hadn't considered that a 3-D portrayal of men behaving well (in addition to being vulnerable, etc.) was also offering a positive contribution to this problem. So thank you for that perspective. Abigail, And you make a good point as well about how disposable men can be in popular media -- something that is rarely questioned as a form of sexism. I'm not sure Dr. Maven would volunteer for any lumps, smart bugger that she is, but you're right, placing women on a pedestal isn't very useful either. Thank both of you for your kind words and encouragement. Like I said, I'm still not letting myself off the hook with this issue, but you both make compelling arguments that the portrayal of men in a story is as important as the portrayal of women. And that more vulnerable, more emotionally available portrayal of men is certainly something that attracts me to the best of yaoi as well.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('153','Alex Woolfson'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('153','Alex Woolfson','Winona,\n\nYou make a very good point. While I\'m not willing to let myself off the hook for being responsible for the portrayal of my female characters, I hadn\'t considered that a 3-D portrayal of men behaving well (in addition to being vulnerable, etc.) was also offering a positive contribution to this problem. So thank you for that perspective.\n\nAbigail,\n\nAnd you make a good point as well about how disposable men can be in popular media -- something that is rarely questioned as a form of sexism. I\'m not sure Dr. Maven would volunteer for any lumps, smart bugger that she is, but you\'re right, placing women on a pedestal isn\'t very useful either.\n\nThank both of you for your kind words and encouragement. Like I said, I\'m still not letting myself off the hook with this issue, but you both make compelling arguments that the portrayal of men in a story is as important as the portrayal of women. And that more vulnerable, more emotionally available portrayal of men is certainly something that attracts me to the best of yaoi as well.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Winona,

You make a very good point. While I’m not willing to let myself off the hook for being responsible for the portrayal of my female characters, I hadn’t considered that a 3-D portrayal of men behaving well (in addition to being vulnerable, etc.) was also offering a positive contribution to this problem. So thank you for that perspective.

Abigail,

And you make a good point as well about how disposable men can be in popular media — something that is rarely questioned as a form of sexism. I’m not sure Dr. Maven would volunteer for any lumps, smart bugger that she is, but you’re right, placing women on a pedestal isn’t very useful either.

Thank both of you for your kind words and encouragement. Like I said, I’m still not letting myself off the hook with this issue, but you both make compelling arguments that the portrayal of men in a story is as important as the portrayal of women. And that more vulnerable, more emotionally available portrayal of men is certainly something that attracts me to the best of yaoi as well.

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]]> By: Abigail http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-152 Abigail Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:18:13 +0000 http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-152 Okay I admit it. I read your story one evening and I barely noticed that there was violence against a women. I was so on the edge of my seat I didn't care what happened to Dr. Maven. So what does that say? Shouldn't I have noticed? I consider myself a feminist and I've worked at a shelter for battered women before. But honestly I think it's okay that I didn't see it as violence against a woman or have some huge reaction. I didn't notice because all the characters were so 3-D, men and women. I agree with Nonie above. Unraveling our images of what men need to be is at least as important as unraveling our images of women need to be. Your male characters did just that for me and I loved them for it. So much so that I didn't consider the gender of their antagonist. I only worried about them because they had all the complexity of a real human being. Yeah, they were strong and tough but then they were soft and weak too. Focusing so much on them I only saw Dr. Maven as a villian. Does your story make the world a darker place. No I don't think it does. Not even a little bit. Not for me anyway. Male villians are killed off all the time in movies and we rarely as a culture worry about what that does to the image of men or their safety. If a female villian can't get hurt doesn't that just put her in some kind of Victorian hell? She's stuck up on that pedastal and has to be protected and pampered at all times lest she faint. I think if you could talk to Dr. Maven and ask her if she should be protected at all times because she is woman or if she should take her lumps with the male villians I think she'd want her equality. (Of course, she is a smart bugger so she might try to wangle her way to freedom.) I think someday you will write a piece with a wonderful female protagonist and in the meantime I'll enjoy watching and reading as you take the journey.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('152','Abigail'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('152','Abigail','Okay I admit it. I read your story one evening and I barely noticed that there was violence against a women. I was so on the edge of my seat I didn\'t care what happened to Dr. Maven. So what does that say?\r\n\r\nShouldn\'t I have noticed? I consider myself a feminist and I\'ve worked at a shelter for battered women before. \r\n\r\nBut honestly I think it\'s okay that I didn\'t see it as violence against a woman or have some huge reaction. I didn\'t notice because all the characters were so 3-D, men and women. I agree with Nonie above. Unraveling our images of what men need to be is at least as important as unraveling our images of women need to be. Your male characters did just that for me and I loved them for it. So much so that I didn\'t consider the gender of their antagonist. I only worried about them because they had all the complexity of a real human being. Yeah, they were strong and tough but then they were soft and weak too. Focusing so much on them I only saw Dr. Maven as a villian. \r\n\r\nDoes your story make the world a darker place. No I don\'t think it does. Not even a little bit. Not for me anyway. Male villians are killed off all the time in movies and we rarely as a culture worry about what that does to the image of men or their safety. If a female villian can\'t get hurt doesn\'t that just put her in some kind of Victorian hell? She\'s stuck up on that pedastal and has to be protected and pampered at all times lest she faint. I think if you could talk to Dr. Maven and ask her if she should be protected at all times because she is woman or if she should take her lumps with the male villians I think she\'d want her equality. (Of course, she is a smart bugger so she might try to wangle her way to freedom.)\r\n\r\nI think someday you will write a piece with a wonderful female protagonist and in the meantime I\'ll enjoy watching and reading as you take the journey.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Okay I admit it. I read your story one evening and I barely noticed that there was violence against a women. I was so on the edge of my seat I didn’t care what happened to Dr. Maven. So what does that say?

Shouldn’t I have noticed? I consider myself a feminist and I’ve worked at a shelter for battered women before.

But honestly I think it’s okay that I didn’t see it as violence against a woman or have some huge reaction. I didn’t notice because all the characters were so 3-D, men and women. I agree with Nonie above. Unraveling our images of what men need to be is at least as important as unraveling our images of women need to be. Your male characters did just that for me and I loved them for it. So much so that I didn’t consider the gender of their antagonist. I only worried about them because they had all the complexity of a real human being. Yeah, they were strong and tough but then they were soft and weak too. Focusing so much on them I only saw Dr. Maven as a villian.

Does your story make the world a darker place. No I don’t think it does. Not even a little bit. Not for me anyway. Male villians are killed off all the time in movies and we rarely as a culture worry about what that does to the image of men or their safety. If a female villian can’t get hurt doesn’t that just put her in some kind of Victorian hell? She’s stuck up on that pedastal and has to be protected and pampered at all times lest she faint. I think if you could talk to Dr. Maven and ask her if she should be protected at all times because she is woman or if she should take her lumps with the male villians I think she’d want her equality. (Of course, she is a smart bugger so she might try to wangle her way to freedom.)

I think someday you will write a piece with a wonderful female protagonist and in the meantime I’ll enjoy watching and reading as you take the journey.

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]]> By: Nonie http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-149 Nonie Mon, 02 Jul 2007 02:03:46 +0000 http://www.yaoi911.com/should-yaoi-creators-fight-sexism/#comment-149 Writing males in a sensitive way is just as important as writing strong females when it comes to making an impact on sexism. Half the problem is in the way men are portrayed. It gets a lot less attention because people view the macho male character as strong and empowering - the fact is, the average male character is just as stereotyping and imprisoning as the average female, just in different ways. Men are told they HAVE to be strong and unfeeling and macho, so of course these traits can't belong to women, just as being caring, nurturing, loving, and weak all go to the women and can't belong to men. So when you're writing a story with a mostly- or all-male cast, you can still make very effective arguments against sexism by making your men *real*, 3 dimensional men with feelings - which is something in which yaoi is already far ahead of many other representations of men in the media. There's always room for improvement, but a big reason why I like yaoi stories is exactly that - as exaggerated and cheesy as if often may be, these men can feel and love. So really... Though you're doing right by keeping your portrayals of females in mind and committing to improve your own writing, by promoting this genre you're already helping on the other front, male representation.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('149','Nonie'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('149','Nonie','Writing males in a sensitive way is just as important as writing strong females when it comes to making an impact on sexism. Half the problem is in the way men are portrayed. It gets a lot less attention because people view the macho male character as strong and empowering - the fact is, the average male character is just as stereotyping and imprisoning as the average female, just in different ways. Men are told they HAVE to be strong and unfeeling and macho, so of course these traits can\'t belong to women, just as being caring, nurturing, loving, and weak all go to the women and can\'t belong to men. So when you\'re writing a story with a mostly- or all-male cast, you can still make very effective arguments against sexism by making your men *real*, 3 dimensional men with feelings - which is something in which yaoi is already far ahead of many other representations of men in the media. There\'s always room for improvement, but a big reason why I like yaoi stories is exactly that - as exaggerated and cheesy as if often may be, these men can feel and love.\n\nSo really... Though you\'re doing right by keeping your portrayals of females in mind and committing to improve your own writing, by promoting this genre you\'re already helping on the other front, male representation.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Writing males in a sensitive way is just as important as writing strong females when it comes to making an impact on sexism. Half the problem is in the way men are portrayed. It gets a lot less attention because people view the macho male character as strong and empowering - the fact is, the average male character is just as stereotyping and imprisoning as the average female, just in different ways. Men are told they HAVE to be strong and unfeeling and macho, so of course these traits can’t belong to women, just as being caring, nurturing, loving, and weak all go to the women and can’t belong to men. So when you’re writing a story with a mostly- or all-male cast, you can still make very effective arguments against sexism by making your men *real*, 3 dimensional men with feelings - which is something in which yaoi is already far ahead of many other representations of men in the media. There’s always room for improvement, but a big reason why I like yaoi stories is exactly that - as exaggerated and cheesy as if often may be, these men can feel and love.

So really… Though you’re doing right by keeping your portrayals of females in mind and committing to improve your own writing, by promoting this genre you’re already helping on the other front, male representation.

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